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Messages - smjcolsga

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46
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 11, 2017, 04:57:55 PM »

I have to admit that having the opportunity to discuss the changes in detail went a long way to help alleviate my concerns.

I'm glad that LL has confirmed our observations about the new floor construction, and I'm sure the overall materials used in its construction are up to the task. However, I still feel that they could have done a better job implementing it by adding additional floor supports (at least in the QS 10). When you feel the floor 'give' beneath your feet it does not inspire confidence in the new materials or design.. This is especially true when the previous model was well known for its rock-solid stability. This is only my opinion, you should judge for yourself.

47
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 09, 2017, 11:27:23 AM »
I don't think manufacturers frequently return to previous specs unless the buying public has an option to purchase that spec somewhere else. In the case of the floor, I haven't seen it available from anyone now so I wouldn't expect Thor to change it back, they have no fiscal reason to do so.

Agreed. What they can, and hopefully will, do is listen to all of the customer feedback these threads are generating. Personally, with the exception of the current floor design, I think the QS is still a solidly built camper. If they take another shot at the floor design, say by adding a stiffer and tougher composite bottom layer and, particularly in the case of the QS 10, add a few supporting cross members over the large open spans of the frame so that the floor felt 'solid' underfoot, then I think customers would be more accepting and possibly see this as a logical evolution of design using modern materials and manufacturing techniques.

48
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: August 08, 2017, 06:51:14 PM »
The wheel wells are bigger because they now use 15" tires for the standard package.

Just checked my 2018 QS 10 standard and it has 12" wheels with ST145R12 tires mounted albeit with larger wheel wells than before. There is now a minimum 3" clearance as measured at the top of the tire.

50
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 08, 2017, 09:10:14 AM »
I may be mistaken, but I no longer see any reference on the LL website or promotional materials of the campers being "all aluminum with no wood to rot or steel to rust" which, in the past, was already featured prominently in all LL promotions.

"Due to continual research and advances, manufacturer reserves the right to change specifications, design, price and equipment without notice,

LL removed the two walkthrough videos showcasing the QS 10.0's unique features, such as all aluminum decking and fully removable dinette, after my initial complaint about the lack of these on the 2018 model I received. They also told me they were updating the 2018 sales order form which listed those as 'standards'. Incidentally, the 2018 sales order form, essentially a contract to buy, had no such disclaimer.

51
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 06, 2017, 04:00:47 PM »
Then they'd have to make sure the top welds were ground flat. This way they can go wild with the welds and never even clean them up.
With that, you may be closer to the reason than you think... up until this year, the QS tent campers were essentially all made-up by hand. Judging by the changes which were made, including laminated floor and walls, my guess is that KZ is looking to trim manufacturing costs by redesigning the QS tent campers so that much of them can be produced on the same production lines as thier other products. There is nothing at all wrong with that in and of itself, but if you change the way a product is made just in order to fit on a particular production line.. do you end up with the same product? well, you be the judge.

52
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 05, 2017, 09:20:17 AM »
The frame on mine looks identical to yours in basic construction with the large unsupported areas between outboard spars. I don't know why they didn't think to weld the short bars running front to back at the top of the crossbars rather than the bottom, that would have provided some support by cutting the unsupported areas in half (LL are you listening?) That was a great idea to measure the floor sag with different loads (special thanks to your daughter who showed that even less than a 100 lb load wasn't supported). My kitchenette is also as you describe, though having not seen a previous model I didn't notice the lack of finishing as you did. Read the Lamilux excerpt carefully and compare that against what you've seen on your unit's floor.  I'll leave it up to the readers then to form their own opinions, but see if you notice what I did about their expectaions of the product and recommended layup design...

53
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: 2018 Quicksilver 10.0
« on: August 04, 2017, 07:14:51 PM »
Wow! Great video showing all of the details of the 2018 change-ups. I have to say though that build quality must be all over the place on these because my unit's frame welds look a lot cleaner and straighter than those on your video. Mine is a standard on-road model and came off the line 22 June 2017. As for the floor, I did some research after the fact on the Lamilux brand and discovered it is basically a thin (3mm) glass reinforced polymer (grp) sheet with a 'foamed pvc' top deco layer 'permanently bonded' to the grp layer. It is meant to be used as the top layer in laminate structures for floors and walls. I understand that LL/KZ produce laminates in-house. Here is what Lamilux says on their website: www.lamilux.com

This new material will make it possible to use sandwich floor structures with less wood or even without wood in the future. This allows design engineers to achieve three key objectives: reduce weight significantly, improve resistance to damp and moisture, thus eliminating mould and swelling, and optimise thermal insulation in caravan flooring.

Whereas a single PVC layer has been affixed to wooden flooring surfaces in the past, LAMILUX Composites Floor now allows design engineers to take completely new approaches to floor design since this material is now an essential element in modern sandwich floor structures.

INSEPARABLE BOND BETWEEN PVC AND RESIN

Design concept: featuring a high proportion of woven material to ensure optimum strength, the flat glass-fibre reinforced composite (GRP) sheeting is given a PVC layer. This layer is added during the actual GRP manufacturing process itself, meaning that there is no need to use adhesive since a perfect bond is formed between foamed PVC and the GRP reinforcement layer.

The highly robust, lightweight composite material is only 3 millimetres thick and can be lined with any one of many different décor sheets. It is also completely odour-free since a styrene-free epoxide resin is used in the GRP. To form sandwich flooring, the client affixes the material to a foam structure, which preferably also features a GRP layer with a high proportion of glass-fibre woven material on its lower surface.

54
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: August 04, 2017, 10:11:10 AM »
being a little shaken right now by these reports of problems.

Keep in mind this thread is talking about recent changes to the Quicksilver 10.0 tent camper, the Camplites, if that's what you are looking at (judging by your signature line), are completely different campers and may not have the same changes described here. Another recent Camplite owner (JazzyPigsGa) has posted his/her impression of that model elsewhere on this site.

55
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 31, 2017, 03:32:29 PM »
I would NOT buy a new Living Lite for the reasons you have raised.  I CAN NOT recommend the current product! 
For certain some may see these changes as dubious improvements to a tried and true product, especially if one were basing a purchase decision on the previous offerings, and I personally would not have bought a 'first year' run when so many changes were introduced... the 2018 is essentially an all-new frame-up redesign. While we've been hitting all of the negatives so far, I will say that the new frame seems pretty robust and well built. The larger wheel wells are not bad if you don't mind that the dinette's removability is sacrificed, they're actually pretty strong looking imo. My unit does not have the problem of too short or kinked hoses and unfilled holes mentioned by the other owner but does have misaligned benches so it would seem production run procedures on these aren't quite dialed in just yet. The big issue in my mind is with the floor. If they would have built it with a really stiff composite bottom layer that could support an average person's weight across frame members without flexing then a lot of the other 'sins' could have been forgiven. Many would also look on the new insulated floor as a positive change rather than as a potential future liability. I think that was where they missed the mark on the whole redesign effort. Just my opinion YMMV.

56
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 31, 2017, 08:59:26 AM »
My 2017 21RBS, has the aluminum floor covered with vinyl flooring. No floor leaks to date.
That is the kind of floor I was expecting to see on the 2018. In fact, I had seen only a bare aluminum decked QS 6 in person prior to ordering so the dealer directed me to a what I now guess was a 2017 Camplite he had on the lot to show me what the 10.0 floor would be like: that one had some sort of vinyl over the aluminum deck, which made it a little thicker and somewhat insulated from the bare metal. Not what the 2018 has despite all prior info I was given saying it did have the the aluminum deck and removable dinette (sales order description, online videos on their website, etc.)

57
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 30, 2017, 06:30:20 PM »
I also had noticed the same 'build issues' such as sharp edges, sloppy sealing, etc but not having seen a previous year model myself I did not think to attribute these to be issues related to the 2018 change over. I concur with all the other points you mention with wheel wells, furnace, etc. as mine is identical in those respects though my faucet works ok. I replaced the bench screws with 3/8" pan head screws which don't poke through the base.

58
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 28, 2017, 10:25:01 AM »

I would have (and still would) approach the dealer and tell them that this isn't what you agreed to buy. If I ordered a car and they delivered a vehicle with a foam floor, seats that don't fold down anymore, no 12v accessory plugs, and various other build issues then I wouldn't have even accepted it.

Because of a late delivery of the camper the day we left for our trip I did not have time to go over the unit as carefully as I should  have before driving off with it. I mean, who even knew these changes were in the works? I'm in communication with LL about all of this, waiting to see how they respond.


59
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 27, 2017, 10:28:34 PM »
Livin' Lite tent campers are a niche market appealing to those buyers looking for a rugged and simple camper that will outlast their need for it. If I were worried about a few drops of moisture on the floor I'd be as worried about any water coming in through the tonneau cover too. People love these and hang onto them practically forever because they simply do not wear out. If the vinyl floor covering an aluminum decked QS wears out or is damaged it is easy to replace, not so with a thin vinyl topcoat permanently bonded to a few inch thick layer of styrofoam. Sorry but in my opinion that is not even close to being as durable as a solid metal floor. We happily pay a premium for these over other more fully equipped campers because of the way they are (were) built to last. I'm sorry to see that has changed. In any case, new buyers should be made aware of these substantial improvements [sic] so they can make an informed purchase decision for themselves.

60
QuickSilver Tent Campers / Re: Caveat Emptor -2018 QS 10.0
« on: July 24, 2017, 09:00:28 PM »
No, it is saggy, not squishy.. you can feel the floor 'give' a bit when stepping on an area not directly supported by a frame member.. I don't think the bonding layers (with a foam core) are stiff enough to support even 100lbs across the spans of the frame without flexing... and the foam core is easily dented through the flexible top layer leaving lasting impressions as i described above.. waiting to hear what LL or KZ have to say...

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