Livin' Lite Forum

News and Announcements => Keep up with the Latest from Livin' Lite => Topic started by: djsamuel on December 05, 2017, 04:10:40 PM

Title: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 05, 2017, 04:10:40 PM
I've heard that Dan is gone.  I know he was considering retiring at some point, so I hope that is the case.

Is anyone from the company taking over for Dan?
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: tinkeringtechie on December 06, 2017, 12:57:55 PM
If it's true, then he left without even mentioning it or introducing his replacement. Doesn't seem right...
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 07, 2017, 08:33:33 AM
Agree 100%.  Makes me wonder about future commitment to this site and customers.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: tinkeringtechie on December 07, 2017, 10:32:09 AM
It has always been a pretty low priority for them and this hijacked new forum seems to be more like an echo chamber for questions that go unanswered and issues that aren't addressed. People expect factory participation on a factory hosted forum, and it's just not there...
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 07, 2017, 10:36:18 AM
It has always been a pretty low priority for them and this hijacked new forum seems to be more like an echo chamber for questions that go unanswered and issues that aren't addressed. People expect factory participation on a factory hosted forum, and it's just not there...

Exactly.  They would have been better leaving the previous forum alone.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: klaker on December 07, 2017, 11:19:21 AM
Can you imagine Dan fighting against the Thor tide of down market product changes and intense cost cutting , If I were him I would retire also.

I am thankful I got one of the last "true" livinlites, while my cabinet doors are wood everything else is as it was in the beginning  ;D. The dealer has been excellent with the few minor issues that have cropped up and I tell everyone who asks about my camper to buy a pre 2016 if they want the aluminum floor and roof.

Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: DavidM on December 07, 2017, 12:55:10 PM
It may be interesting to compare this factory forum to another "cult" type camping trailer, the Oliver.

The Oliver brand/factory as best I know is still individually/family owned like the original LL under Tuttle. There are some quality complaints on the Oliver forum but these seem to be much less confrontational as is this site. There is a common spirit to fix them and improve the product.

The Dan equivalent does not normally post on the site, but he is well known to all and apparently responds to all emails by the end of the day. The original problem identifier/poster typically works out the solution with "Dan" and then shares it all with the forum. It works well that way.

So, Oliver seems to have a better communications system and a more loyal customer base than LL. It helps that they cost almost double what a LL costs. I suppose that when you come to grips with spending that kind of money you are a loyal supporter from that point onwards. I suppose Airstream owners are similar.

Thor pursues an entirely different business model: keep the cost down while maintaining some semblance of an all aluminum/Azdel camper. The changes that they have made over the last few years are to help hold the price down and make the product more appealing from an aesthetic sense- wood faced cabinets for example.

So would I buy a new Oliver, well no. Would I buy a new LL, well maybe. Would I buy a new LL made like Tuttle used to make them for $5,000 more than a current LL, well yes. But I suspect that the market for the latter is rather small. You need to have owned one of the originals to appreciate it and be willing to pay (even) more.

David
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: Dogkinkead on December 09, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Does anyone know if he still reads his emails?
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: wlmartin54 on December 11, 2017, 11:32:22 AM
Spoke with Paul at Livin Lite this morning , Dan is not with them anymore.

It appears from what Paul said that no one from Livin Lite is monitoring this forum anymore.

Paul is monitoring their facebook page and he can be reached via email at:  paul.r@livinlite.com.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 11, 2017, 12:08:52 PM
Well this was certainly a wasted effort.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 12, 2017, 10:27:58 AM
If this forum is going to go with no admin, there is always aluminumcamperforum.com.  That is a great site with a lot of Livin Lite owners.  It is basically the follow on to the original livinlite forum before the company got involved.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: Paul on December 12, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
If Livin lite is willing to provide the files, database and domain name I would gladly merge the forum with AluminumCamperForum.com. I will try to contact LL to see if this is a possibility
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: prose on December 15, 2017, 10:33:16 AM
Yes Dan has retired from the industry.  Any kind of questions that need a response to in regards to your product or our product in general feel free to contact me here at Livin Lite.  paul.r@livinlite.com. I don't get on the forum regularly.  Just so you know, Dan had a vast amount of knowledge with the product and will be missed.   I've been with the company the past 4 years and I will do my best in answering questions.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on December 18, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Thanks for the update. Glad to hear Dan retired. Hope he enjoys himself.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: utahredrock on January 31, 2018, 10:26:29 AM
Prose,

Thanks for commenting. It seems curious that the company would host a forum . . . at all really. Shouldn't it be independent?

And if the company is going to host it, shouldn't it be regularly monitored? As a former Airstreamer I love the Airforums, which Airstream does not host.

Just trying to get my head around the thinking here.

I just bought my CampLite yesterday and am very excited.

One thought is CampLite may want to shut this forum down and let people go to Aluminum Camper Forum. Just a thought.

The CampLite trailers seem pretty cool! Also much more affordable than Airstreams. I still love Airstreams, but had to face the financial reality of them finally.

Jim
Salt Lake City
Recovering Airstreamer (I've owned three vintage Airstreams)
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: DavidM on January 31, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
Thor, LL's parent, just doesn't seem to understand the cult nature of the LL products and with the loss of Dan doesn't seem interested in supporting that culture.

A factory sponsored forum will probably fail if the manufacturer doesn't support the forum rigorously. Look at how Oliver does it. That is a superb factory sponsored forum. With Thor's attitude even if they assigned another Dan I suspect it would just degenerate into problem complaints with no resolution.

I agree then that Thor should drop this forum and let the independent aluminumcamperforum.com be the only LL forum.

David
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: prose on January 31, 2018, 03:23:29 PM
Jim,
Thanks for the comments and welcome to the Livin Lite family.  I will definitely pass along your comments to management. -pr
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: utahredrock on January 31, 2018, 09:41:17 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: Capt J-rod on February 01, 2018, 08:58:55 AM
I hope that Dan was able to transition on his terms and not other's intentions. Mergers never seem to go well. As an engineer I understand that there are profits and deadlines. I also understand the real meaning of planned obsolescence. If the product lasts significantly longer than the competition then the number of people interested drops down. Now there are exceptions such as upgrading or downsizing. I had a different post describing the "Jayco Owner Experience"... I will get out of camping if I have to purchase a Jayco or similar stick framed camper. Dan came from the old company as I understand it. He went above and beyond to help people on the site, myself included. Best wishes to Dan in retirement. As for Thor and KZ, They are yet to represent the customers best interest in the design changes and reputation.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on February 01, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
I hope that Dan was able to transition on his terms and not other's intentions. Mergers never seem to go well. As an engineer I understand that there are profits and deadlines. I also understand the real meaning of planned obsolescence. If the product lasts significantly longer than the competition then the number of people interested drops down. Now there are exceptions such as upgrading or downsizing. I had a different post describing the "Jayco Owner Experience"... I will get out of camping if I have to purchase a Jayco or similar stick framed camper. Dan came from the old company as I understand it. He went above and beyond to help people on the site, myself included. Best wishes to Dan in retirement. As for Thor and KZ, They are yet to represent the customers best interest in the design changes and reputation.

As I live not too far from some of Dan's children, he emailed me a while ago to ask some questions related to his retirement planning.  I don't know what his final decisions are, but based on what he was considering, I think this was a decision that was his to make; not forced on him.  I certainly hope that is the case.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: ThStranger on February 01, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
"As for Thor and KZ, They are yet to represent the customers best interest in the design changes and reputation."

How so ?
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: Capt J-rod on February 01, 2018, 11:12:03 AM
There are a ton of threads on this. The history of Campsite was a small privately held company that set out to build amazing quality light weight campers. In my opinion they succeeded. Thor is a mega company that controls the entire camping industry. They buy up all the competition and stream line the production. The original camplites were all aluminum with barely any wood. The labor and materials were probably pretty intense and the skills needed of the fabricator were also high. Thor wasted no time eliminating aluminum floors and roofs. Pressboard cabinets were introduced but the aluminum package was still available. Now they have composite floors and are offering composite walls. Brunswick did this to boats like sea ray, Boston whaler, and Lund. When the creator is the owner he truly cares about every trailer. When a factory absorbs a product line and the original team is gone? well you decide. Dan was the last of the original guys that knew every screw and every system. He will be greatly missed.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: ADR on February 01, 2018, 12:19:42 PM


As I live not too far from some of Dan's children, he emailed me a while ago to ask some questions related to his retirement planning.  I don't know what his final decisions are, but based on what he was considering, I think this was a decision that was his to make; not forced on him.  I certainly hope that is the case.

As a retiree of a VERY large company, that every American is familiar with,  I can say many "voluntary" retirements may technically be that but in reality they are anything but.
I retired at 60 rather than my desired 65 simply because the pressure and stress had got to the point I was truly afraid I would not live to 65!
Best move I ever made- it is difficult forcing myself to live on about half of what I was making, but worth the sacrifices.
 BTW it has been 4 years and I'm still convinced I made the right decision.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: ThStranger on February 01, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
I'm in my early 50's and own my own business but will get out as soon as possible ! I congratulate you on your decision.
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: djsamuel on February 01, 2018, 12:57:10 PM


As I live not too far from some of Dan's children, he emailed me a while ago to ask some questions related to his retirement planning.  I don't know what his final decisions are, but based on what he was considering, I think this was a decision that was his to make; not forced on him.  I certainly hope that is the case.

As a retiree of a VERY large company, that every American is familiar with,  I can say many "voluntary" retirements may technically be that but in reality they are anything but.
I retired at 60 rather than my desired 65 simply because the pressure and stress had got to the point I was truly afraid I would not live to 65!
Best move I ever made- it is difficult forcing myself to live on about half of what I was making, but worth the sacrifices.
 BTW it has been 4 years and I'm still convinced I made the right decision.

Great to hear you're convinced about your decision.  :)   I'm at a maximum of 1417 days from retiring and hoping to make it sooner. 
Title: Re: Where's Dan?
Post by: Capt J-rod on February 01, 2018, 02:31:52 PM
Retirement is a moving target. I own and remodel rentals and my wife is in medicine. At age 39 I have 7 units an 4 properties. I also do HVAC, Plumbing , and mechanical consulting for commercial HVAC and sick buildings. Work and income have become less of a concern, but the health insurance and unknowns keep us working and saving at a feverish pace. Right now the wife provides insurance leaving me free to pursue my own business and properties. I always saved and worked, but my new mission is how to maintain this quality of life on a limited fixed income at some point. Best wishes to Dan and the other early retirees on here that broke the mold. I hope to join you guys at age 50... With out big goals you lose your motivation lol!