Excessive tongue weight with small single-axle trailer (16TBS)

Started by oregon, February 19, 2018, 06:05:22 PM

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oregon

I'm wanting to purchase a 2017 16TBS, thinking it would be an ideal small and lightweight singe-axle aluminum travel trailer.  It is fairly small, and it's not excessively heavy overall at 3370 pounds (per Livin Lite's brochure), but it puts a lot of weight on the tow vehicle's ball. 

Dry Hitch Weight is listed (per brochure) as 442 lbs, but I read that in normal use that number can increase very quickly, due to the '17 16TBS's single axle.  For example, an owner-measured ball weight of 625 pounds was reported here:
https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=391.0.  In the same thread, the double-axle version weighed in with a 540 lb tongue weight, and it makes sense the 2nd axle would help somewhat, given that it's located further forward.

That's a lot of added pounds for a small/light camper to put on the tow vehicle, and more than the 8%-10% U.S. guideline for the ratio of tongue weight to trailer weight.  A weight distribution (WD) hitch could potentially help, but that does just add more total weight to the system and many tow non-truck tow vehicles aren't approved for a WD hitch.

Other than pick-up trucks and massive truck-like SUVs (think Tahoe, Suburban), I could find almost nothing that can handle a 625 hitch weight; a Touareg (now discontinued) and a Jeep Grand Cherokee can manage it though, if properly set up.

Am I correct in concluding that if I buy a CampLite "lightweight" and fairly small single-axle 16' trailer (specifically, in this case, the 16TBS), that I need a pretty special rig to deal with it??  I originally thought my 300hp Audio Q5 with factory towing package should by able to tow a 16' aluminum travel trailer, but the more I read, the more I am concluding I was probably wrong to think that.  Heck, even the exceptional and discontinued Touareg seems barely sufficient!

I read here...http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=68200 and
http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability...that in Europe the recommended upper-limit on ball weights is 100kb (220 pounds)! It seems strange that the dry weight of an aluminum 16' trailer should already exceed more than double that amount (i.e., the 442 lbs hitch weight of the 16TBS).  What gives?

Am I over-thinking this and reading too much?  Shouldn't a standard SUV with a factory tow package be able to handle a 16' aluminum CampLite trailer?  I'd love to buy one, but don't want to be super restricted to a few and very large tow vehicles.  I'd really appreciate other perspectives on this.

DavidM

My double axle 2013 16TBS currently has a tongue weight of 350 lbs. It was only 240 lbs when I picked it up from the dealer but lots of stuff in the forward pass through increased the weight significantly. It now is pretty well in balance with 9-10% on the tongue.

Unfortunately the switch to single axles for that model a few years ago significantly increased the tongue weight. LL could have moved the new single axle forward a little and that would have resulted in a tongue weight similar to the double axle model.

But they didn't and others have complained about the 15+% tongue weight of the single axle 16TBS. It can probably be fixed but it won't be easy. You will have to move the wheel wells several inches forward, patch up the exposed area behind ithem and move the axle forward. No one is going to do that.

Sorry, but it is what it is. The only practical solution is to move all the moveable weight you can to the back and see what you get.

I wouldn't use a WDH if your TV's rated tongue weight is 500 lbs or less and your measured tongue weight is a hundred pounds or so more. Too much is still too much. Your TV will ride more level with a WDH but the structure isn't designed to take that much load.

The switch to a single axle for that model was one of the bigger mistakes Thor made IMO.

David

Wrathful

Do you know what all these things you think of yourself or bring from any source?

klaker

It is typical for campers to have 12 to 14% of trailer weight as tongue weight, and it can be more if you load up the front baggage compartment.

The "8%-10% U.S. guideline for the ratio of tongue" is correct for boats, not travel trailers.

You can't compare Europe with the US, they have small roads, small cars, and gas is like triple what we pay. Why is it that the Ford focus is rated to tow something like 2,500 pounds in Europe and ZERO in the US and it is the exact same car.

If you want a low tongue weight on a camper move the battery to somewhere in the camper above the axle, get rid of the propane tanks, and don't put anything at all in the front baggage compartment. all unrealistic things to do.

Don't forget frontal area of the trailer, many tow vehicles limit the square footage. For the 16TBS loaded up and ready to camp I'd say you'll need a 1/2 PU or a full size SUV with the maximum payload (if available) and towing package.


Capt J-rod

I attached a link for my 2015 21rbs... The weights are the same as your single axle 16?

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2015-livin-lite-camplite-travel-trailer-floorplan-21rbs-tr24068

My 2006 jayco 19 was a single axle. It was always a balancing act and truly was a pain in the ass.

Here's the specs for the 16TBS...

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2017-livin-lite-camplite-travel-trailer-floorplan-16tbs-tr31060

Why is it so much heavier?

popup2012

I agree with David M on his 16TBS.  When I got my 4 wheel 16TBS, I had to add weight to get it up to 10% on tongue weight.

chappy133

We have a 2016 16 TBS.  When we ordered in October 2015 it had a dual axle but that was changed when manufactured in January 2016 and we were lucky to get one of the last aluminum roofs.

We were told their story for going to a single axle due to not enough tongue weight but I do believe it was a cost cutting measure.  We have what we have so we make the best of it we can.

We tow with an F-150.  I had to add air bags to my truck to level out my truck.  I am way within the trucks towing capacity so I did not want to add a WDH.  The air bags do help with towing and glad I added them. 

BTW with the single axle and the lift bags our 16' TBS single axle tows great behind our truck. 

If you have the tow capacity then consider air lift bags for your TV. 

Chuck
2016 21 RBS
2022 F 150 Lariat
Easton, PA

BeerSnob

Quote from: oregon on February 19, 2018, 06:05:22 PM
I'm wanting to purchase a 2017 16TBS, thinking it would be an ideal small and lightweight singe-axle aluminum travel trailer.  It is fairly small, and it's not excessively heavy overall at 3370 pounds (per Livin Lite's brochure), but it puts a lot of weight on the tow vehicle's ball. 

Dry Hitch Weight is listed (per brochure) as 442 lbs, but I read that in normal use that number can increase very quickly, due to the '17 16TBS's single axle.  For example, an owner-measured ball weight of 625 pounds was reported here:
https://aluminumcamperforum.com/index.php?topic=391.0.  In the same thread, the double-axle version weighed in with a 540 lb tongue weight, and it makes sense the 2nd axle would help somewhat, given that it's located further forward.

That's a lot of added pounds for a small/light camper to put on the tow vehicle, and more than the 8%-10% U.S. guideline for the ratio of tongue weight to trailer weight.  A weight distribution (WD) hitch could potentially help, but that does just add more total weight to the system and many tow non-truck tow vehicles aren't approved for a WD hitch.

Other than pick-up trucks and massive truck-like SUVs (think Tahoe, Suburban), I could find almost nothing that can handle a 625 hitch weight; a Touareg (now discontinued) and a Jeep Grand Cherokee can manage it though, if properly set up.

Am I correct in concluding that if I buy a CampLite "lightweight" and fairly small single-axle 16' trailer (specifically, in this case, the 16TBS), that I need a pretty special rig to deal with it??  I originally thought my 300hp Audio Q5 with factory towing package should by able to tow a 16' aluminum travel trailer, but the more I read, the more I am concluding I was probably wrong to think that.  Heck, even the exceptional and discontinued Touareg seems barely sufficient!

I read here...http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=68200 and
http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/driving-towing-towing/towball-weight-and-trailer-stability...that in Europe the recommended upper-limit on ball weights is 100kb (220 pounds)! It seems strange that the dry weight of an aluminum 16' trailer should already exceed more than double that amount (i.e., the 442 lbs hitch weight of the 16TBS).  What gives?

Am I over-thinking this and reading too much?  Shouldn't a standard SUV with a factory tow package be able to handle a 16' aluminum CampLite trailer?  I'd love to buy one, but don't want to be super restricted to a few and very large tow vehicles.  I'd really appreciate other perspectives on this.

Re: VW Touareg (I'm the owner in the above link) - pretty sure they're still available just not the TDI version. We have a 2014 gasser and tow a 2017 16TBS with no problem using an Andersen W/D Hitch. We even towed up and over 11,000' mountain passes last summer without issue. We were really happy with the performance considering we're towing with a mid-sized SUV. Overall, it felt really stable.

When I was doing my research for this combo 18 months ago I also found that certain builds of the Dodge Durango could accommodate the 16TBS. I also did extensive reading on the Touareg owners forum partly because there are some documented discrepancies about the tongue weight it can take. If you haven't looked at it go check out what people tow with their Touaregs. It gave me the confidence to go for it and so far I'm glad I did. I didn't want a full size SUV or truck as a daily driver and I love the Egg for that. I did agonize over weights and spent a lot of time checking and re-checking tongue weights and tow weights. I still run through the local grain elevator scale each time we load up for a trip. Loaded we run around 4200 lbs with about 600 pounds on the tongue. Well within the Eggs capacities.

isabelng

Quote from: chappy133 on February 24, 2018, 09:08:07 AMWe have a 2016 16 TBS.  When we ordered in October 2015 it had a dual axle but that was changed when manufactured in January 2016 and we were lucky to get one of the last aluminum roofs.

We were told their story for going to a single axle due to not enough tongue weight but I do believe it was a cost cutting measure.  We have what we have so we make the best of it we can.

We tow with an F-150.  I had to add air bags to my truck to level out my truck.  I am way within the trucks towing capacity so I did not want to add a WDH.  The air bags do help with towing and glad I added them. 

BTW with the single axle and the lift bags our 16' TBS single axle tows great behind our truck. 
In geometry dash lite, compete with friends on leaderboards or challenge them to specific levels, bragging rights on the line.
If you have the tow capacity then consider air lift bags for your TV. 



Thanks for sharing your experience with towing your 2016 16' TBS single axle trailer with your F-150! It's valuable to hear insights from real-world users.